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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 14:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
+1,
While your at it take care of Scorch and lessen Arty as well. Bring back Beams and Rails as viable Fleet Weapons and Pulses as Short Range Weapons.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 14:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Morganta wrote: only its pretty foolish to nerf one thing just prior to buffing everything else
You call what that Blog had as a serious buff?
Hahahaha cute.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Morganta wrote: when you make wide sweeping changes (or proposed ones) to deal with balance issues, you don't go and change some other aspect prior to it.
No but you do change it at the same time. The best Hybrid fix will come from buffing what is weak and cutting what is strong.
Fill the Holes with the Mountains instead of trying to build new Mountains.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hannibal Ord wrote: If you nerf Minmatar, then you basically make Amarr THE race to fly, with few exceptions, in almost every ship category in the game.
Amarr is not that good. Scorch is good. They make Pulse Lasers the long range weapon. Make Beams the Long Range Weapons again and Pulses Short Range and that will bring back Beams.
Put Artillery in line with Rails and Beams and you will have balance w/o any race being OP.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morganta wrote:this is why I was saying you should let the winter patch come and then determine if the other races need work.
DPS is only half the equation.
I disagree with the first statement, I say they should go a head and just balance the whole damn game before they get lost in establishments and fluff again.
But yeah DPS is such a small part of the equation.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
274
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Posted - 2011.11.01 15:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hannibal Ord wrote: In terms of Close range weapons:-
Scorch = Barrage - Same range, different flavour. Balanced. MF = Fusion/EMP etc - same range, different flavour. Balanced.
Bolded is where you stopped making sense.
The Range of Scorch invalidated long range weapons as it is right where fleet range is supposed to be.
Hannibal Ord wrote: In terms of long range weapons:-
I would agree that Minmatar has a trick with it's high alpha. For me this gives it flavour. Rails and also lasers could probably do with a buff in this regard and I will agree it is out of balance. This does not mean Minmatar should be nerfed, it means the others should be improved. But remember lasers still have instant ammo switch (which is a HUGE plus) and also quicker ROF.
Everything you said is pointless because of Scorch (except Artillery Alpha which is OP) compared to Beams and Rails(Better known as the weapons Scorch Replaced).
Fights over 30-40 in a Battleship should involve Long Range Weapons and except for Artillery it does not. Medium Beams and Rails see almost no use ether
Hannibal Ord wrote: As someone above me has said, wait until hybrids are buffed, see how they do. Then consider nerfing/buffer certain aspects of various weapons and ships. Asking for a nerf to an only recently buffed weapon system, after YEARS of it being underpowered is a stupid stupid thing to be asking for.
That Someone was wrong on every point.
Balance comes from looking at everything.
This should not be a Hybrid Buff but a Weapons Rebalance. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
275
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hannibal Ord wrote: Barrage and Scorch both share a very very similar range improvement.
An Maelstrom with 800's gets 6+36 with Barrage. An Abaddon with Mega Pulse gets 45+10 with Scorch.
No they are not the same exact ranges - but very similar to each other overall. As opposed to a Rokh or Hype loading Null. So basically you are talking out of your arse.
You seem to beleive I was talking about something besides Scorch invalidating non Arty long range Weapons. You should stop thinking that.
The fact that any short range weapons system can get a 45km Optimal is a mistake. Barrage looses to much in falloff to be an effective fleet tool..
Hannibal Ord wrote: You see a similar theme with say, an AC Vaga and a Pulse Zealot. If pulse lasers invalidate long range weapons, then AC's also do a similar thing. And then you get to the ups and downs of both weapon systems which becomes situational in how they balance each other out.
Autocannons do not invalidate long range weapons because they deal way less DPS at range. They do however when combined with a good medium range and high speed screw over short range ships.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
275
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Posted - 2011.11.01 16:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
pussnheels wrote: minmatar tend to be a bit more skill intensive than the other races or am i wrong .? Your wrong. They require about as much as any other race. 1400mm Arty can be used in Fleets at Lvl 4 while you need T2 for Scorch. Missiles are not a priority because there best ships do not use them. You don't need to train Armor early on because Shield is there real strength. Base Speed means you actually need to train less Nav skills in the beginning. Everything else(Support, Drones, ect) are on par with other races. This myth that Minmatar is harder to train is just that. I don't get why it is so popular.
pussnheels wrote: and don't anyone dare to touch my scorch
L2Beam |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
275
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Posted - 2011.11.01 16:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alistair Cononach wrote: Where Minmatar shine (and are used most it seems) is in solo-PvP. It's rare in my experiences to see non-claoky solo-PvP'er roaming in anything other than either Hurricaine or Vagabond.
Minmatar Fleet PvP is almost on par with Amarr while ruling Solo. Maelstroms, Tempests, Muniins and Arty Canes are all great fleet choices backed by excellent Minmatar Recons and Logistics.
Minmatar can do it all. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
275
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Posted - 2011.11.01 16:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hannibal Ord wrote: When I look at Long range weapons I look at 100km + for mediums and 150+ for large weapons. You seem to think that anything above point range it long range.
35-60 is where most fights get maneuvered to. Warp to/Probe Mechanics make it to hard to keep a fight out at those ranges and the enemy from escaping.
Hannibal Ord wrote: Basically you are asking for a Scorch nerf, when it shares such similar properties to Barrage. I will agree Beams need something to balance themselves against Arties, but if you nerf Scorch well we should also nerf Barrage. If we make everything nice and close range that's fine, and blasters will just then **** all over both weapon systems again.
Never said nerf Barrage directly. I would however say Nerf Large Barrage and Large Scorch and keep medium Scorch and Barrage the way they are.
That along with buffing Medium LR Weapons would great in my books. |
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
277
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote: I would suggest looking at PvP ships used the most.
Hurricane, Drake, Myrmidon, Megathron, Dominix, Rifter, Harbinger, Taranis.......... wut Minmatar rely on speed & versatility, but against any decent foe of equal ability in their optimal range, they get slaughtered Said PvP ships that are used the most, not the ones you wish were used the most.
Hurricane, Drake, Abbadon, Maelstrom, Vagabond, Cynabal, Zealot, Dramiel, Hound, Tengu, Armageddon, Tempest..........
These ships are the most prominent on the top ten. The ones you listed are ok but not all that great.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
277
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote: But I just listed the ones I've seen the most, to illustrate the point that the preponderance of Minmatar is not nearly as large as one thinks. Minmatar ships are easy to use well, but really difficult to use exceptionally well. Don't confuse being versatile with being above & beyond.
Point out the Ship that uses Hybrids or the Amarr Ship that does not need Scorch to be on that list.
Bombs Autocannons Scorch(Not Lasers, Scorch) Heavy Missiles Artillery
= Balance
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
277
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote: I don't recall saying the other races didn't need to be looked at.
Start with 1400mm Artillery and L Scorch.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
277
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote: I don't recall saying the other races didn't need to be looked at.
Start with 1400mm Artillery and L Scorch. Is there a disagreemnet here? I sure as hell don't see one. You would only ask if you are looking for one.
Page Snipe.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
285
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Posted - 2011.11.02 07:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: not sure if i understand, but, you absically want every gun to have the same stats, beams = amrrian arty's kinda thing, absically you can fly whatever whenever and always have a chance to win?
Not the same but similar enough that one does not have a glaring advantage and all of them are not teeth kicked by Scorch.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: cause as i see it now, ive seen players in blaster-boats and hybrid-platforms do serious damage against minnies who got cocky, and amarrians who egt neuuted.
honestly, every race ahs a specific battlefield role they fill, and then their ship classes fill sub-roles within that combat profile.
No one says they do not or should not.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: im not sure if im understanding your post here, but it sounds like your proposing what alot of ill-informed people sugest and thats making ever race equivalent, beams being basically the same as arty's except shooting flashlights.
An ill-informed person reading this might think so but then again they would be wrong.
I am however saying that:
1. Artillery has "too much" Alpha in comparison to the other 2 Weapons Systems. Whilst Artillery should be an Alpha Weapon it should still not be the "God Choice". DPS from Beams and Rails would need to give an advantage over Artillery that is at this point moot.
2. L Scorch has pretty much killed Rails and Beams. Make Pulses a short range weapon with Arty changes to bring these back on the field.
They should follow a pattern like this:
Artillery: More Alpha (Less then currently) Beam Laser: DPS Pump and Amarrs current fleet weapon.(Not Scorch) Rail Gun: Middle ground between DPS and Alpha.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: BTW, seriosuly, you don't nerf something for being OP rigth ebfore you buff something else, it guarantees the Buffee is top-dog/FOTM until either they fidn a way to buff everything else again, or nerf it back to how i t originally was.
Yes you do. You absolutely positively megatively you do want to.
That is called Rebalancing, not buffing and it is what this game needs more then the ineffective Hybrid Buff I saw. Nerf some buff others, change roles, bonuses and stats. Tweak ships so that when a player looks at a ship they can see 5 different uses for it.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
298
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Posted - 2011.11.02 16:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote: -shield Cane does 405 DPS at 20km. -plated Harb still does 555 at 20km.
1. Barrage Cane can Disrupt, Hit and Kite out to 24 and even farther if you overheat. 2. Cane can escape if it is loosing, Harbinger has to stay and die. 5 Cane vs 1 Harbinger = Dead Harbinger. 5 Harbingers vs 1 Hurricane = 1 Hurricane entering Warp.
No wonder so many fly them and so few fly the golden slug. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
323
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rhinanna wrote: Minmatar have massive problems as soon as you remove their ability to move quickly, look at the Vaga's stats for example, its got 40k EHP with maxed skills and a good fit and only putting out a MAXIMUM of 500dps at point blank range, thats when it HASN'T been fitted out for max speed. The faster Vagas you see are often fit down to 25k EHP tank, less than some T1 cruisers. They maybe be harder to catch but it takes much less to drive them off, a single drake is a match for a vaga that tries it's luck, a zealot would however do nasty things to the same drake, particually if its AB fit.
1. Drakes own Zealots. 2. Muninn is the long range HAC not the Vaga, 3. All skirmish ships are in trouble when they loose speed not just Minmatar. Vaga is one of the top skirmish ships. 4. Take away the Zealots 10% Range Bonus and it would suck as well. 5. Vega is probably the most extreme and over the top example since it is basically a Cruiser Frig.
Rhinanna wrote: If we follow through with your suggestions then you have to nerf Minmatar for smaller gangs and buff them in bigger gangs, so basically make all the races an exact copy of the Amarr....... would that make you happy? Because thats the only way to make all the races balanced equally in all areas.
Do you play the game?
1400mm Maelstrom 1400mm Tempest Nano Tempest 720mm Nano Hurricane Arty Muninn Scimitar Rapier Huginn Hound Sabre Broadsword
Vs
Caldari
Drake Tengu Cerberus Manticore
and Gallente
No Example Available
Poor Minmatar, they are really, really suffering in the fleet department.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
323
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:OH NO vaga cant solo a drake := lets boost matar !!! Fun Fact. 5 Vagabonds can solo a Drake while 5 Drakes can watch a Vagabond escape.
Everyone forgets that in balance discussions.
It has proved to be important. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
323
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Quote: Caldari
HAM Drake HML Drake Nano Drake HAM Tengu 100MN AB Tengu Falcon Rook Basilisk Cerberus Manticore Scorpion
Fixed. HAM Tengu, 2x Nano Drake and HAM Drake are small gang ships not blob boats. The Basilisk is a lesser Scimitar for when you don't have a Scimitar. The Falcon/Rook are not often big fleet assets. Not enough to be worth mentioning. The 1600mm Plate Scorp is one I forgot about.
Also you forgot the Vulture which means I did. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
326
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Wat.
-Liang
The Person said take away Minmatars speed and there not that good as to show projectiles are not OP. But speed is important because while a Vagabond can not solo a Drake a group can catch one easy enough. A group of Drakes on the other hand get nothing more then to watch a Vagabond leave.
The difference is pretty big. Yet people tend look at the issue as if they are talking only about 1v1's when it comes to balancing.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
326
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: I'll have to remember that I got solo killed next time I die to five Vagabonds.
-Liang
What are you talking about?
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
326
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: I even underlined it in your post before responding. "5 Vagabonds can solo a Drake". That's not soloing a Drake.
-Liang
Stop getting caught up over typo's.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
327
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Lighten up. It wasn't meant to be a big deal, but you're making it one.
-Liang
Ok then, I will post that it is your fault and we will see if your forum OCD overrides your lighten up sentiment making you need the last word.
Ahem: It is in fact you who needs to lighten up.
Now to see if all this time away from the forum has changed Liang.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote: WTB 500 DPS at 24km Cane. WTB 700 DPS at 60km Tempest.
Artillery can do that, Barrage is more for close kiting which Cap Use and Speed are a greater factor.
Hurricane: 17Opt 33FO, 479 Gun DPS, 4000 Alpha, 61000 EHP, 1311m/s, 0 Cap Use and 3 Different Dmg Types Maelstrom: 30Opt 44FO, 682DPS, 11000 Alpha, 130000 EHP, 835m/s, 0 Cap Use and 3 Different Dmg Types
Well I say that those Artillery Ships are just damn to good. So Projectiles meet your dream stats almost dead on with even a few improvements just not Barrage.
Just so you know, I happen ton think Large Scorch needs a Nerf pretty badly. It makes Beams and Rails Pointless and as you can see above so does Artillery. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: A few comments: - All of your complaining seems centered around how both lasers and projectiles are better than Hybrids. As of Monaclegate, most weapons systems (sans Hybrids and Cruise) were pretty reasonably balanced. If you really feel that the Hybrid boost isn't strong enough, you should campaign for it to be strengthened. - It isn't really an apples to apples comparison to compare Artillery with its terrible tracking to Pulse and its relatively awesome tracking. - It seems really premature to complain that Pulse makes Rails pointless when Rails are getting a 10% damage boost in the next patch. - Continuing QQing for nerfs when competing weapons systems are getting buffed is pretty dubious and the realization of your desires would likely lead to even worse balance than we have now (which is actually pretty good, sans Hybrids).
-Liang
1. No it is that Beams and Rails don't see use anymore. Scorch DPS, Artillery Alpha has limited the field. 2. Yes Pulse does have better tracking then a Long Range Weapon should. 3. Oh good 10% Buff now they are fine cept that they still do Lower DPS and there is the Tracking thing you mentioned. 4. That is only if you think the people running the balancing are drooling retards. 1 Massive Alpha Weapon and One Super Tracking Super DPS Weapon = Dead Rails and Beams.
Now that they are working to bring Hybrids in line is the perfect time to wrangle in everything.
Izuru Hishido wrote: Scorch makes beams and rails pointless? How? Since when does scorch hit at 180+ optimal? Since when does scorch do 400 DPS at 150km+? Musta missed that buff.
When is the last time you needed 10 be at that long a range since Apocrypha. When is the last time FC said Beams and Rails instead of Scorch and Arty. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: When they're mucking around with Hybrids is a ******* terrible time to nerf everything else.
No it is not. Do you think the Devs are too stupid to muck around with more then one weapons system at a time then balance them against each other.
Liang Nuren wrote: It isn't reasonable to talk about Blasters or Rails in the past and use them as a basis for nerfing anything today.
-Liang
They are terrible today because there ultra long range role is dead. Rails and Beams will not out DPS Scorch or Out Alpha Artillery. Therefor this rebalance is pointless without looking at Scorch.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: If long range is dead, don't you think it'd be a better choice to look at why long range is dead? Or, I guess you could continue on QQing about how you want everyone else nerfed.
-Liang
That is one solution to look into probing and Wrap too Mechanics.
Or they can nerf L Scorch Opt and:
Make Beams the fleet weapon for DPS Make Artillery the fleet Alpha Weapon Make Rails the middleground between Alpha and DPS.
And Finally make Pulse Lasers a Short Range Weapon.
Ether would be fine.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: No, either would not really be fine. If you are worried that range is dead and its depriving weapons of their role, then fix that. Once that's fixed you have literally no excuse to be comparing Artillery and Scorch anyway. Really, nerfing Scorch to solve this problem is the pants on head stupid way to solve it.
-Liang
To solve your problem maybe. I don't mind effective being where it is now. So yes I want Scorch to have the same Damage as it does now and the range of Standard Ammo and Long Range Weapons rebalanced against each other.
If you care about 100+ ranges you are free to care about that all you want.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.11.03 21:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Izuru Hishido wrote:
Kay. Javelin Torps with 3%-5% implants, but you do need one rocket fuel cache partition. With 3%'s you can easily exceed fifty kilometers. I think the max range I got was sixty seven kilometers.lf.
Yet it is terribly inaccurate for fleets and slows your ship to a crawl making range control harder. But a fleet relying on Implants, good job.
Izuru Hishido wrote: 800's get close to 70km without any tracking computers/enhancers. lf.
Optimal Genius most of that Dmg gets lost in falloff.
Izuru Hishido wrote: I've got a corpmate who has a mega setup that gets 60km optimal with antimatter with blasters. Think that negates your entire argument. No wasted rig slots either. Not giving you the fit either.
What interesting fantasies you have.
Izuru Hishido wrote: Oh, and also, you don't need a tracking comp to get above 50km on scorch. You just need to think about it and you'll get above 50. Don't hurt yourself though.
On an unbonused ship you need a TC, TE, Implant or Rig to get that.
Izuru Hishido wrote: So there, a short list. I've shown AC's get a long range in certain circumstances. Torps, Blasters, Pulses, they all hit out to sixty or higher if you know what the hell you're doing. Obviously you don't, or you'd have figured this out before crying that everything's broken. You'd probably be one of the people that would fit a large shield booster to a geddon, given the fact that you couldn't figure this out yourself.
Well you have proven it 50+ Optimal for all those weapons...
Now that I said what I want and this thread has been relocated to crazytown I shall ride my L Shield Booster Geddon into the Sunset. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
350
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Posted - 2011.11.06 16:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:but with all the extra training you have to do to fly Minmatar (a LOT of extra training), nice to have at least some subcap ships on par with other races.
This is a complete myth. The most SP-intensive race is easily Caldari. Minmatar compete with Amarr for being least SP-intensive. They require about as much as any other race. 1400mm Arty can be used in Fleets with Meta 4 while you need T2 for Scorch. Missiles are not a priority because there best ships do not use them. You don't need to train Armor early on because Shield is there real strength. Base Speed means you actually need to train less Nav skills in the beginning. Everything else(Support, Drones, ect) are on par with other races. This myth that Minmatar is harder to train is just that. I don't get why it is so popular. |
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
352
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Posted - 2011.11.06 21:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: I'm not saying I can't put together an alright Typhoon... I'm saying that the Typhoon (very specifically) has a much higher SP cap than any other T1 BS in the game. Any claim that Caldari requires more SP overall is just.... well, ******* hilarious.
-Liang
So because it is so hard to fit out one Minmatar Ship they are the hard race.
It is not even there Races best Battleship, the Maelstrom is so much more versatile on top of being easier to train then most other Races ships.
All of there good ships are quite low SP. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
353
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Posted - 2011.11.06 21:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: A few comments: - The Maelstrom isn't the best Minnie BS.
Sure it is. Large Fleets, Active Solo/Gang and PvE. Sure the Phoon has some Niches but the Maelstrom just has so many roles.
Liang Nuren wrote: - The Maelstrom isn't the easiest BS to train.
Not any harder then other Races Battleships.
Liang Nuren wrote: - If you're willing to accept T1 guns, lasers dramatically beat out all projectile based BS's.
If you are willing to accept T1 anything T2 Lasers dramatically beat it out. Unlike Scorch you can still use Arty and Auto's with diminished success until you get T2.
Liang Nuren wrote: - The race as a whole is harder than the other races. The Cyclone is another example of a ship that follows the same traditional Minmatar schizophrenic design pattern that pushes its SP cap higher than its peers.
I know but the Hurricane firmly in place as the second best Battlecruiser in the game is very ready and willing to make up for that.
Liang Nuren wrote: Basically: stop trying to push an anti Minmatar agenda and start pushing a pro game balance agenda. I literally have no vested interest in Minmatar (or any other race) being the best, but I'm damn sure not going to stand by while a bunch of clowns with no knowledge of the game ask for unnecessary nerfs. -Liang
Basically I stopped doing that, my opinion is known and I don't feel like arguing it anymore. I am only speaking to the myth that Minmatar is difficult to train. There Best Ships are low skill, getting good with this race does not take a more time then any others. Just because there are a few ships that are rarely used that take more time to master does not make the race hard to train.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
353
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Posted - 2011.11.06 22:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote: Missiles are not a priority? Please. How many Typhoons actually go the gunnery route? God forbid you want to fly the Nag. And never mind the fact that missiles are intended to provide optional extra firepower on many ships, when neuts are not appropriate.
Typhoons are not necessary to be good at Minmatar. The Naglfar Dreadnaught is only really important if you are part of the 20% of Players that want to train them and the 1% that use Dreads. As for extra firepower very few Minmatar ships go the Missile route at all.
Herr Wilkus wrote: Oh, and did I mention that Trajectory Analysis (+falloff, only really useful for Projectiles) is a Rank 5 skill? Corresponding Laser skill is only rank 2. And there is a BIG difference in volley damage between Meta 4 and T2 1400MM. U can gank a Hulk with T2, Meta 4 doesn't always cut it.
Bigger difference between T2 Lasers which can not gank a Hulk at all.
Herr Wilkus wrote:Shield tanking is fine, unless you want to fly the Rupture, most Hurricanes, Typhoons or Tempests. (And most of you would argue, thats OK, Mins shouldn't be flying BS or cap size ships anyway. ) Rutures, Hurricanes and Tempests work fine as Shield Ships. Basically the Phoon and that is about it.
Herr Wilkus wrote: Everyone trains Nav skills, but its twice as important for Mins - plenty of hit and run ships that live or die by maintaining range. Cynabal, Vagabond, Rapier, shield Canes and Tempests. A webbed Vagabond is a dead Vagabond. Don't want to bother with drones? Well Minmatar ships get the 2nd largest drone bays behind Gallente, so you are screwing yourself if you don't train them properly.
Yet they are still faster then other races equivalents without max skills.
As for Drones. The Typhoon is the only Minmatar Subcap that can field a full set of Heavies. Besides that they have no serious Drone Ships
Herr Wilkus wrote: In short, spare me your whining. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Flying the Minmatar race's ships require a far wider skill set than any other race. "Oh, but you can fly half of their ships just fine" is not a valid argument.
Bull, you can use over 90% of there ships without Armor, Missiles or Heavy Drones just fine. Gallente needs Drones and Hybrids, Caldari needs Missiles and Hybrids and Amarr needs T2 Lasers.
This Minmatar victim complex is silly. There lofty grids, high speed and still useful Meta Weapons make them on par with other races.
In Short Spare me your Whining you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Flying Minmatar effectively requires as much training as any other race. But you can't fly the Typhoon and Dreadnaught is not a valid argument. |
Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
353
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Posted - 2011.11.06 22:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Its more than just the Typhoon and dreads - its all the ships with split weapons systems and high "utility" slot count.
-Liang
The Cyclone and the Phoon Basically.
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Alara IonStorm
RvB - BLUE Republic
353
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 22:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: The Brutix and Ferox could be really exciting if the hybrid boosts go the right way. :)
-Liang
Small Blaster Spec 4: 6 Hours 27 Min then Medium Blaster Spec 1 goes in the Que.
Here is hoping it goes well.
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